...Richard Dawkins. That's right. The anti-God one, who's spent his life trying to debunk any kind of religious belief.
Well, in case you hadn't heard, he's now started on Father Christmas. Not only poor FC, but also, fairy tales; in fact, any story that can't be scientific fact. Thus, rather pompously, he says "there's a very interesting reason why a prince could not turn into a frog" (actually, Steve, it's the other way round. You need to read the book). "It's statistically too improbable". (Since we're being pedantic here, I'd have used the word 'impossible'. But perhaps he knows something I don't.)
Well, that's almost every children's book from Peter Rabbit to Harry Potter dismissed. Masterpieces like The Wind in the Willows*, Winnie the Pooh, the Gruffalo...all misleading and therefore bad for children.
I can see Professor Dawkins, Dawkins junior on his knee, reading aloud a condensed version of War and Peace. Or perhaps David Copperfield. That must have been a laugh.
And what about those imaginary friends beloved of children? What did his children do with lost teeth? Bin them? Examine them under a microscope and make notes on their findings? Were they allowed to go to fancy dress parties ("no, dear, you can't go as a fairy, because there's no such thing")?
I don't mind the good prof having a go at God. God's used to it. But I think he should leave the kids alone, and let them enjoy their imaginations while they still have the time.
*Oddly, it didn't occur to me until I was almost adult that a toad leading a cart horse or wearing a washerwoman's clothes was (to use Dawkins' word) improbable.
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Frances Improbable is correct. Scientists are loathe to use impossible as nothing is impossible if it is tackled in the right way with the right skills.
ReplyDeleteI agree with him on religion but disagree with him for making a career out of debunking it. He's a bit like Nick Clegg....a comedian who doesn't get many laughs but does get paid an awful lot for telling bad jokes.
Faith too is important. It must take immense trust to fly a pulse jet aircraft at supersonic speeds or go into space. Faith or a total lack of imagination.
Adrian, scientists may be unwilling to use the word impossible, but I am not a scientist. And are you saying that there is even the faintest possibility of a kissed prince turning into a frog? If there isn't, then surely it's impossible? Are we talking science, or semantics here? What is the probablity/possiibility of, say, Queen Victoria being seen riding on the back of a motorbike driven by Elivis Presley? Where is the boundary between the possible and the completely impossible?
DeleteIf there were a god and he was omnipotent then nothing is impossible. I think the point about people with no belief in a deity most would say that if you can prove something then it is acceptable and believable.
DeleteWhen our crown princess Victoria a few years ago got married to her "man of the people" Daniel, he was turned into a prince (by the bride's father the king). I don't remember the exact wording now, but Daniel himself did make a joke about it at the wedding dinner (that being kissed by a princess turned him into a prince). Not that he was ever actually a frog, of course. (At least not that I know of.) So I'm not sure if that counts...
DeleteFrances, Queen Victoria on the back of a Harley being driven by Elvis.
DeleteOpen a novel with that and I'd keep reading. I do read the Bible, King James version. I love the Old Testament stories. My favourite goes something like this. "you shall only eat animals of cloven hoof but thou shall not eat the swine for although it hath cloven hoof it cheweth not the cud.
There is a religion, Buddhism, I suspect, whose adherents believe people can be re-born as anything. I'd love to be a bird...one of the protected ones.
Gosh Adrian the voice of reason and no rant (well hardly anyway). I know it's nitpicking, Frances, but RD is correct in the use of improbable in the context as Adrian said. Statisticians always use degrees of probability - leastways they did when I did it at Uni but that was a long time ago. I, too, agree with him on the subject of religion but I have always had a severe aversion to proselytisers. Actually I'm not sure why I didn't just say ditto to Adrian minus the personal slur on a hardworking ...okay just ditto.
ReplyDeleteGraham is a proselytiser a posh word for a poet?
DeleteBut GB, this post was supposed to be about children and fairytales, not God (or gods) or the science of statistics. The fact is - and I think it is a fact - that there is no evidence - scientific or otherwise - for the possibility of the physical morphing of frogs into princes (or vice versa).But frogs aside, where do you stand on Father Christmas, and fairytales?
DeleteI am ambivalent about Father Christmas. I never believed in him nor did my children although we did do the Father Christmas pretend when they were young. I thing Richard Dawkins is quite wrong if he is suggesting that fairy tales and so on should be scrapped. Next it will be nursery rhymes and then opera. I've never agreed with his strident approach nor been swayed by it. I am a lover of gentle reason. And if I were omnipotent I'd quickly do away with anyone who didn't have that quality. You see, I am a man of gentle reason.
DeleteI never doubted it, GB.
DeleteFather Christmas happens to be a very good friend of mine, but I still ain't met any God.
ReplyDeleteCM, you haven't addressed the subject of this post! But at least you don't seem to be a pedantic scientist, like the other two (above) so I suppose that's something...
DeleteI'm not a scientist just a lover of scientific reasoning. I plead guilty to being a pleonastic pedant though.
DeleteI was never a fan of Father Christmas myself (even as a kid). This because ours (he's called Jultomten here) calls in person and wears a terribly frightening face mask and asks in a strange deep voice if you've been "good". (And if you haven't there is the implied threat that then you don't deserve any present.) I always said I'd never put my childen through that. As it turned out I never had children, so never had a chance to prove that standpoint. Anyway I think it was C.S. Lewis who eventually turned me around even about Father Christmas. (Not to mention various other improbabilities.)
ReplyDeleteMy kids LOVED the whole Father Christmas thing, DT, and so did I. They never felt deceived when they found out the truth, and their younger children are all believers.
DeleteCome to think of it, I don't think we have Tooth Fairy in Sweden. Or at least we didn't back in my time. There may be one now, of course - we've gone much more international since then. I still got money for my teeth back then though. Ah, those were the days! I wish there was a Tooth Fairy for grown-ups (to pay the dental bills)...
DeleteSome people give their controversial opinions for attention. It would be better if the rest of us ignored him and didn't give him the time of day.
ReplyDeleteQuite right, Maggie.
DeleteFor me, Mr Christmas should be left alone as should the fairy tales. PC madness.
ReplyDeleteAh! Sense at last. Good for you, Colette. I was beginning to think I was alone.
Delete